Washer repair & Earthing ?

[the_constructor]

I recently had to have my Hotpoint washing machine repaired.
When the engineer arrived, he said that under new rules he had to do an
earth leakage test on the house electrics before he could do the repair.
He plugged in a tester and said, oh dear, it's more than 200 Ohms. He tested
various circuits around the house and still it was more than 200 Ohms.
I asked him what it all meant. His reply was very vague, in so much as his
reply was, he knew there was an earth, but it was more than 200 Ohms and
really he shouldn't repair the machine until such time as it was put right
and I would have to get an electrician in.
After chatting with someone on the phone he eventually did the repair.
My earth is provided by a metal rod sunk into the garden which is under a
flagstone and a green cable from that to a terminal block and then to the
fuseboard. All connections are tight.
In between the meter and the fusebox is a Residual Current Operated Circuit
Breaker, 204V 50Hz 80A Load to BS4293, Model WSES 80/2 30mA Trip.
At my previous house, we had one of the former (Similar) with an earth cable
attached to that as well as an earth rod.

I have just be reading about different types of earthing systems.

My questions are these:-
Which earthing system have I got ..... ?
Although I have an earth, what was he on about ..... ?
I always thought that if you had a earth it was okay.
Should I be unduly worried ..... ?
Could it be that the earth cable at the earth rod has come off some how by
rotting away.

Electricians are expensive and I want to explore every possible avenue
first.

Your help and advice are most welcome.
--
the_constructor

[ARWadsworth]

Post by the_constructor
I recently had to have my Hotpoint washing machine repaired.
When the engineer arrived, he said that under new rules he had to do an
earth leakage test on the house electrics before he could do the repair.
He plugged in a tester and said, oh dear, it's more than 200 Ohms. He
tested various circuits around the house and still it was more than 200
Ohms.
I asked him what it all meant. His reply was very vague, in so much as his
reply was, he knew there was an earth, but it was more than 200 Ohms and
really he shouldn't repair the machine until such time as it was put right
and I would have to get an electrician in.
After chatting with someone on the phone he eventually did the repair.
My earth is provided by a metal rod sunk into the garden which is under a
flagstone and a green cable from that to a terminal block and then to the
fuseboard. All connections are tight.
In between the meter and the fusebox is a Residual Current Operated
Circuit Breaker, 204V 50Hz 80A Load to BS4293, Model WSES 80/2 30mA Trip.
At my previous house, we had one of the former (Similar) with an earth
cable attached to that as well as an earth rod.
I have just be reading about different types of earthing systems.
My questions are these:-
Which earthing system have I got ..... ?
Although I have an earth, what was he on about ..... ?
I always thought that if you had a earth it was okay.
Should I be unduly worried ..... ?
Could it be that the earth cable at the earth rod has come off some how by
rotting away.
Electricians are expensive and I want to explore every possible avenue
first.
Your help and advice are most welcome.
--
the_constructor

...

Have a read of http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/electrical/electrical.html#system

Your system is wired as a TT system, although it may be a TN-C-S that has
not utilised the supplied earth as the main bonding to the water and gas is
not done. Your supplier can tell you what type of supply you have.

I seem to recall that you do need an earth loop of less than 200 ohms on a
TT system but plugging a tester in to a socket is not the correct way of
testing the earth rod. You really should be disconnecting the rod from the
CU and testing it on it's own.

I really do not see why a washing machine cannot be repaired because your
house has got a poor earth but it was good of the repairman to bring the
information to light. Time to lift the flagstone and inspect the cable I
think.

Adam

[the_constructor]

Post by ARWadsworth

Post by the_constructor
I recently had to have my Hotpoint washing machine repaired.
When the engineer arrived, he said that under new rules he had to do an
earth leakage test on the house electrics before he could do the repair.
He plugged in a tester and said, oh dear, it's more than 200 Ohms. He
tested various circuits around the house and still it was more than 200
Ohms.
I asked him what it all meant. His reply was very vague, in so much as
his reply was, he knew there was an earth, but it was more than 200 Ohms
and really he shouldn't repair the machine until such time as it was put
right and I would have to get an electrician in.
After chatting with someone on the phone he eventually did the repair.
My earth is provided by a metal rod sunk into the garden which is under a
flagstone and a green cable from that to a terminal block and then to the
fuseboard. All connections are tight.
In between the meter and the fusebox is a Residual Current Operated
Circuit Breaker, 204V 50Hz 80A Load to BS4293, Model WSES 80/2 30mA Trip.
At my previous house, we had one of the former (Similar) with an earth
cable attached to that as well as an earth rod.
I have just be reading about different types of earthing systems.
My questions are these:-
Which earthing system have I got ..... ?
Although I have an earth, what was he on about ..... ?
I always thought that if you had a earth it was okay.
Should I be unduly worried ..... ?
Could it be that the earth cable at the earth rod has come off some how
by rotting away.
Electricians are expensive and I want to explore every possible avenue
first.
Your help and advice are most welcome.
--
the_constructor

Have a read of http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/electrical/electrical.html#system
Your system is wired as a TT system, although it may be a TN-C-S that has
not utilised the supplied earth as the main bonding to the water and gas
is not done. Your supplier can tell you what type of supply you have.
I seem to recall that you do need an earth loop of less than 200 ohms on a
TT system but plugging a tester in to a socket is not the correct way of
testing the earth rod. You really should be disconnecting the rod from the
CU and testing it on it's own.
I really do not see why a washing machine cannot be repaired because your
house has got a poor earth but it was good of the repairman to bring the
information to light. Time to lift the flagstone and inspect the cable I
think.

...

Thank you for your reply Adam.

Will I be in order then to connect the Gas supply (as per Corgi installers
request
a couple of months ago) and the water pipe to the earth terminal block that
is at
the side of the Consumer unit, before I ask someone to come and test it
again. I
don't supose you can have too many earth routes.
I shall be earthing the new kitchen sink when installed in a couple of
months time.

The Hotpoint engineer said that this test was brought in by Hotpoint because
they do a lot of Garauntee work for British Gas who are fanatics and that
they had
been told not to repair any machines if the earth test was greater than 200
Ohms. As
mentioned earlier, he did the repair after consulting someone on the phone.
I can
only pressume that because there was some form of earth he was told it would
be ok,
but he did give me a printout of the earth fault to show an electrician.

Oh by the way before I forget, I had a look in the RCD inbetween the
consumer unit
and the meter and there is no earth terminal at all.
--
the_constructor

[ARWadsworth]

Post by the_constructor

Post by ARWadsworth

Post by the_constructor
I recently had to have my Hotpoint washing machine repaired.
When the engineer arrived, he said that under new rules he had to do an
earth leakage test on the house electrics before he could do the repair.
He plugged in a tester and said, oh dear, it's more than 200 Ohms. He
tested various circuits around the house and still it was more than 200
Ohms.
I asked him what it all meant. His reply was very vague, in so much as
his reply was, he knew there was an earth, but it was more than 200 Ohms
and really he shouldn't repair the machine until such time as it was put
right and I would have to get an electrician in.
After chatting with someone on the phone he eventually did the repair.
My earth is provided by a metal rod sunk into the garden which is under
a flagstone and a green cable from that to a terminal block and then to
the fuseboard. All connections are tight.
In between the meter and the fusebox is a Residual Current Operated
Circuit Breaker, 204V 50Hz 80A Load to BS4293, Model WSES 80/2 30mA Trip.
At my previous house, we had one of the former (Similar) with an earth
cable attached to that as well as an earth rod.
I have just be reading about different types of earthing systems.
My questions are these:-
Which earthing system have I got ..... ?
Although I have an earth, what was he on about ..... ?
I always thought that if you had a earth it was okay.
Should I be unduly worried ..... ?
Could it be that the earth cable at the earth rod has come off some how
by rotting away.
Electricians are expensive and I want to explore every possible avenue
first.
Your help and advice are most welcome.
--
the_constructor

Have a read of http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/electrical/electrical.html#system
Your system is wired as a TT system, although it may be a TN-C-S that has
not utilised the supplied earth as the main bonding to the water and gas
is not done. Your supplier can tell you what type of supply you have.
I seem to recall that you do need an earth loop of less than 200 ohms on
a TT system but plugging a tester in to a socket is not the correct way
of testing the earth rod. You really should be disconnecting the rod from
the CU and testing it on it's own.
I really do not see why a washing machine cannot be repaired because your
house has got a poor earth but it was good of the repairman to bring the
information to light. Time to lift the flagstone and inspect the cable I
think.

Thank you for your reply Adam.
Will I be in order then to connect the Gas supply (as per Corgi installers
request
a couple of months ago) and the water pipe to the earth terminal block
that is at
the side of the Consumer unit, before I ask someone to come and test it
again.

...

Yes, do this ASAP. Use 10mm cable so you are covered if the supply is PME
You still will need the earth rod sorting if you have a TT supply

I

Post by the_constructor
don't supose you can have too many earth routes.
I shall be earthing the new kitchen sink when installed in a couple of
months time.

No need. See page 26 of the OSG

Post by the_constructor
The Hotpoint engineer said that this test was brought in by Hotpoint because
they do a lot of Garauntee work for British Gas who are fanatics and that
they had
been told not to repair any machines if the earth test was greater than
200 Ohms. As
mentioned earlier, he did the repair after consulting someone on the
phone. I can
only pressume that because there was some form of earth he was told it
would be ok,
but he did give me a printout of the earth fault to show an electrician.

Great. What does it say?

Post by the_constructor
Oh by the way before I forget, I had a look in the RCD inbetween the
consumer unit
and the meter and there is no earth terminal at all.

RCDs are not usually connected to earth

Adam

[the_constructor]

Post by ARWadsworth
snip
Great. What does it say?

HERE GOES:-
Our Service Engineer has carried out a routine test of your electrical
supply and has noticed and where possible will have explained to you a
potential problem that has been identified with the earthing efficiency.
We strongly advise you to make the necessary improvements and repairing the
fault(s) identified. Please note that such work should be undertaken by a
qualified electrician.

AT RISK:
Where an item has been identified as 'AT RISK' we recomend that you DO NOT
USE the instalation until the fault has been repaired.

Your installation has been identified as 'AT RISK' for the following
reasons:-
A...
B... Earth loop RESISTANCE greater than 200 Ohms (RCD Protected Circuit)
C...

That's it Adam.

You say quote: "RCDs are not usually connected to earth" but the one in the
previous house was all black with switch and reset button on it and meter
tails went in the bottom and consumer unit tails came out of the top and
also a green/yellow earth cable, which was connected to a separate terminal
inside. I do appreciate that we had overhead cables to the house and at this
house the cables are underground.

[ARWadsworth]

Post by the_constructor

Post by ARWadsworth
snip
Great. What does it say?

HERE GOES:-
Our Service Engineer has carried out a routine test of your electrical
supply and has noticed and where possible will have explained to you a
potential problem that has been identified with the earthing efficiency.
We strongly advise you to make the necessary improvements and repairing
the fault(s) identified. Please note that such work should be undertaken
by a qualified electrician.
Where an item has been identified as 'AT RISK' we recomend that you DO NOT
USE the instalation until the fault has been repaired.
Your installation has been identified as 'AT RISK' for the following
reasons:-
A...
B... Earth loop RESISTANCE greater than 200 Ohms (RCD Protected Circuit)
C...
That's it Adam.
You say quote: "RCDs are not usually connected to earth" but the one in
the previous house was all black with switch and reset button on it and
meter tails went in the bottom and consumer unit tails came out of the top
and also a green/yellow earth cable, which was connected to a separate
terminal inside. I do appreciate that we had overhead cables to the house
and at this house the cables are underground.

...

You had an old voltage operated circuit breaker in the old house. These are
no longer used and were replaced by current activated RCDs several years
ago. Underground cables are rarely supplying a TT system. Is the supply
cable a lead sheathed one or an armoured cable. If so the chances are your
supply is not TT. Call your supplier and ask what supply you have.

Adam

[the_constructor]

<SNIP>

Post by ARWadsworth

Post by the_constructor
Will I be in order then to connect the Gas supply (as per Corgi
installers request
a couple of months ago) and the water pipe to the earth terminal block
that is at
the side of the Consumer unit, before I ask someone to come and test it
again.

Yes, do this ASAP. Use 10mm cable so you are covered if the supply is PME
You still will need the earth rod sorting if you have a TT supply

Which side of the Gas meter does the earth bond need to be on, or should it
be loop to both ..... ?
I have looked at my friends gas meter and his is on the main inlet pipe but
looking at my neighbours, hers is on the outlet pipe. Very confusing indeed.

[ARWadsworth]

Post by the_constructor
<SNIP>

Post by ARWadsworth

Post by the_constructor
Will I be in order then to connect the Gas supply (as per Corgi
installers request
a couple of months ago) and the water pipe to the earth terminal block
that is at
the side of the Consumer unit, before I ask someone to come and test it
again.

Yes, do this ASAP. Use 10mm cable so you are covered if the supply is PME
You still will need the earth rod sorting if you have a TT supply

Which side of the Gas meter does the earth bond need to be on, or should
it be loop to both ..... ?
I have looked at my friends gas meter and his is on the main inlet pipe
but looking at my neighbours, hers is on the outlet pipe. Very confusing
indeed.
--
the_constructor

...

Customers side

Adam

[the_constructor]

Post by ARWadsworth

Post by the_constructor
<SNIP>

Post by ARWadsworth

Post by the_constructor
Will I be in order then to connect the Gas supply (as per Corgi
installers request
a couple of months ago) and the water pipe to the earth terminal block
that is at
the side of the Consumer unit, before I ask someone to come and test it
again.

Yes, do this ASAP. Use 10mm cable so you are covered if the supply is PME
You still will need the earth rod sorting if you have a TT supply

Which side of the Gas meter does the earth bond need to be on, or should
it be loop to both ..... ?
I have looked at my friends gas meter and his is on the main inlet pipe
but looking at my neighbours, hers is on the outlet pipe. Very confusing
indeed.
--
the_constructor

Customers side
Adam

...

Thankyou Adam

[Peter Andrews]

Post by the_constructor
I recently had to have my Hotpoint washing machine repaired.
When the engineer arrived, he said that under new rules he had to do an
earth leakage test on the house electrics before he could do the repair.
He plugged in a tester and said, oh dear, it's more than 200 Ohms. He
tested various circuits around the house and still it was more than 200
Ohms.
I asked him what it all meant. His reply was very vague, in so much as his
reply was, he knew there was an earth, but it was more than 200 Ohms and
really he shouldn't repair the machine until such time as it was put right
and I would have to get an electrician in.
After chatting with someone on the phone he eventually did the repair.
My earth is provided by a metal rod sunk into the garden which is under a
flagstone and a green cable from that to a terminal block and then to the
fuseboard. All connections are tight.
In between the meter and the fusebox is a Residual Current Operated
Circuit Breaker, 204V 50Hz 80A Load to BS4293, Model WSES 80/2 30mA Trip.
At my previous house, we had one of the former (Similar) with an earth
cable attached to that as well as an earth rod.
I have just be reading about different types of earthing systems.
My questions are these:-
Which earthing system have I got ..... ?
Although I have an earth, what was he on about ..... ?
I always thought that if you had a earth it was okay.
Should I be unduly worried ..... ?
Could it be that the earth cable at the earth rod has come off some how by
rotting away.
Electricians are expensive and I want to explore every possible avenue
first.
Your help and advice are most welcome.
--
the_constructor

...

I wonder what his reaction would have been if he refused to repair it and
you refused to pay his call out charge - on the grounds that he hadn't done
anything for you!

Peter

[the_constructor]

Post by Peter Andrews

Post by the_constructor
I recently had to have my Hotpoint washing machine repaired.
When the engineer arrived, he said that under new rules he had to do an
earth leakage test on the house electrics before he could do the repair.
He plugged in a tester and said, oh dear, it's more than 200 Ohms. He
tested various circuits around the house and still it was more than 200
Ohms.
I asked him what it all meant. His reply was very vague, in so much as
his reply was, he knew there was an earth, but it was more than 200 Ohms
and really he shouldn't repair the machine until such time as it was put
right and I would have to get an electrician in.
After chatting with someone on the phone he eventually did the repair.
My earth is provided by a metal rod sunk into the garden which is under a
flagstone and a green cable from that to a terminal block and then to the
fuseboard. All connections are tight.
In between the meter and the fusebox is a Residual Current Operated
Circuit Breaker, 204V 50Hz 80A Load to BS4293, Model WSES 80/2 30mA Trip.
At my previous house, we had one of the former (Similar) with an earth
cable attached to that as well as an earth rod.
I have just be reading about different types of earthing systems.
My questions are these:-
Which earthing system have I got ..... ?
Although I have an earth, what was he on about ..... ?
I always thought that if you had a earth it was okay.
Should I be unduly worried ..... ?
Could it be that the earth cable at the earth rod has come off some how
by rotting away.
Electricians are expensive and I want to explore every possible avenue
first.
Your help and advice are most welcome.
--
the_constructor

I wonder what his reaction would have been if he refused to repair it and
you refused to pay his call out charge - on the grounds that he hadn't
done anything for you!
Peter
.

...

I'm afraid that scenario wouldn't have happened. The washing machine was
only purchased last November and so was under guarantee, but if he had
refused to repair it, then probably WW3 would have broken out.